Looking back on the quest for payments

For the past two months we’ve been finalising agreements with various service providers so that we can finally, finally get our payments up and running. If you’ve been following us for the past few months, you’ll know of our adventures trying to find a payment service provider that would meet our needs while also supporting a Dutch business.

Months of research and headaches later, we now have one paying customer: our boss. The payment loop is up and running in our development environment, meaning that customers should theoretically be able to sign up for a paid Quplo account using a credit card and then get billed monthly via Spreedly.

Here’s the basic architecture we have in place right now:

  • Spreedly (in the US) handles monthly billing and the customer-facing payment pages
  • Ogone (in Belgium) is our payment service provider and gateway
  • Atos Worldline (also in Belgium) supplies our merchant account

Last September we’d started looking around for companies that could help us draw this picture. Unfortunately, none were particularly helpful; clearly, being located in the Netherlands doesn’t make things easier, since many organisations are only easy-going if you’re British or American-based. But if you’re in a “remote” location like one-country-over from the UK, suddenly things drop off. It’s disheartening, but it’s reality.

Romance

Why were things so tough? Because we found Spreedly early on, and fell in love. Spreedly kicks ass. It’s a clean little service with great UI design, a really simple API and it just felt right. It wasn’t enterprisey – I could talk to the lead developer directly, with fast email replies. That’s what we needed.

But after we chose Spreedly, we realised the uncomfortable position we’d put ourselves in. Before Spreedly, PayPal looked like the most obvious option, and perhaps it would have been less of a headache. But we decided early on that our customers’ payment experience needed to be as seamless as possible and feel as much like Quplo as we could make it. PayPal just doesn’t cut it. Spreedly did.

Getting rich quick

So then came the unenviable responsibility of delving through dozens of PSPs and merchant account providers, looking for any that would do business with both us and Spreedly. It sounds simple, but there are plenty of companies that won’t do business with you because you’re located in the Netherlands, or because you’re new, or because Spreedly is in the US and you’re in the NL and WTF is up with that, or – and this was the most astonishing to us – you don’t expect to get rich in the first year.

No, we don’t expect to get rich off Quplo. Do we have to in order to ask our customers to pay for the service? Our contacts recommended that, when signing with PSPs, we indicate at least an expected revenue of $60k (sixty thousand!) in the first year, or they and their bank contacts probably wouldn’t take us seriously. Amazing! So how do startups get off the ground in Europe if this is the landscape they’re faced with?

It’s always in the last place you look

After spending far too long looking, getting decreasingly hopeful that things would work out for the better, and even considering opening up an American branch of Q42 just so we could get this thing over with, we found out from Spreedly that they had a customer in Europe who used Ogone and Atos Worldline.

We’d heard of many other customers using a variation of other service providers, but this is the combination that ended up working for us. Most of the others either didn’t respond to our emails or form submissions (typical), or ended up rejecting us for (by now) familiar vague reasons. But Atos Worldline just came through. Things were confusing and took longer than they needed to, but they ended up working out. And so did Ogone, although I continue to despise the quality of their dashboard.

The road to launch

So here we are. For the next few weeks we’ll be testing our payment roundtrip and finalising everything else. We have a few new features we want to launch into the app, as well as general bug fixes, but we hope to be ready to launch payments and graduate Quplo out of beta soon.

Finally, hopefully, there’s light at the end of the tunnel.

PS. If you’re already using Quplo, expect an email from us in the coming weeks informing you of what will and won’t change.

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    by Tweets that mention Looking back on the quest for payments « quplog -- Topsy.com • Jan 31st 2011 • 15:01

  • I’m curious why you couldn’t use Paypal with Spreedly? I’m in a similar situation (except I’m in New Zealand), and I’m thinking of using Spreedly with Paypal behind the scenes as my payment gateway. Is this going to affect the customer experience?

    by Alex • Jan 31st 2011 • 20:01

  • Hi Alex, we didn’t try using PayPal with Spreedly, actually. We had a pretty bad experience with them early on and it made us decide not to do business with them both because their customer-facing pages weren’t very good, but also because I didn’t feel comfortable using them as a gateway. So it probably works fine, we just wanted to use something else.

    As an aside, using Ogone gives us the opportunity to expand payment options to European-specific things like iDeal if we want, which may become relevant (but probably won’t).

    If you do check out PayPal with Spreedly, let us know how it goes! I’m sure other readers of our blog would be curious to hear your experiences.

    by Rahul • Feb 2nd 2011 • 13:02

  • After an hour on the phone with Paypal I found out that I can’t get CVV checks disabled for my account because that’s only possible for US and Canadian Website Payments Pro accounts. It looks like nobody outside those countries would be able to use a subscription management service like Spreedly with Paypal. Disappointing.

    by Alex • Feb 3rd 2011 • 22:02

  • Alex – yeah, it sucks. Actually, I do recall now that we looked into Website Payments Pro and came to the same conclusions. And that’s how things look for most of the big players, including Amazon and Google. You’d imagine that one of those three would have solved this problem for Europe by now. It’s 2011!

    by Rahul • Feb 5th 2011 • 00:02

  • I’ve been down this road but ended up on the other side. Deciding that 3 monthly contracts ech with their minimum transactions requirements meant spending way more on billing than I was willing to spend at this point. Could you tell us a bit about the sort of costs that came with this solution?

    Also I didn’t end up going forward with Spreedly because of the rather hacky way I would have had to implement VAT calculations for international customers. US payment services seem wholly unaware of even US rules on VAT for some reason let alone European law. Did you manage to solve that elegantly on your end?

    by Tijs Teulings • Feb 5th 2011 • 12:02

  • Hi Tijs,

    Yes, there’s a fairly significant chunk getting cut out of the monthly bill by 3 separate payment services (Spreedly, Ogone, Atos). We decided to just grin and bear it. Making a ton of money off of Quplo isn’t our biggest priority right now; right now we just want to dip our toes in and see what the water feels like. After we’ve done that we’ll make changes where necessary.

    Let’s put it this way: every week spent not accepting payments from customers is more money lost than the money we lose having payments up and running but taking a 20% cut on each bill.

    As for VAT, I found a discussion on Spreedly’s customer support forum: http://getsatisfaction.com/spreedly/topics/how_to_support_sales_tax_in_particular_uk_and_eu_vat

    Nathaniel’s suggestion there makes sense to me, so that’s probably the direction we’ll be going in. It’s also the simplest for our end users, and Spreedly’s dashboard is very easy to work with in implementing such a solution.

    Hope that helps!

    by Rahul • Feb 7th 2011 • 16:02

  • Hi Rahul,

    Makes sense too! I opted to just stick with Paypal for now (with iDeal for dutch customers) which ends up being a lot of grinning and bearing as well :)

    Much thanks for writing your experience down though, will definitely revisit your solution in another few months and re-evaluate my situation with this in mind.

    Do let us know how satisfied you end up being with your Spreedly implementation!

    Best,
    Tijs

    by Tijs Teulings • Feb 9th 2011 • 17:02

  • Hi,

    I’ve been researching Adyen for questionform.com, i’ve heard good things about them.
    I saw that they are based in the Netherlands, did you try them?
    Anyone has any experience with them?

    Thanks

    by Andre • Feb 10th 2011 • 19:02

  • Hi Andre, we looked at Adyen but then decided to pass on them because I didn’t think their website looked very trustworthy. I’m sure they’re fine, but I just personally prefer companies who put some effort into their marketing sites. Hope that helps.

    by Rahul • Feb 14th 2011 • 10:02

  • Hi Rahul,

    Your article is very helpful. I’m in similar situation at this moment. Any reason why you didn’t try Avangate? They are based in NL and seems to have all the features you’re looking for. And from the survey result at this site: http://successfulsoftware.net/2009/10/12/a-survey-of-ecommerce-providers-for-software-vendors/, they rank at the top.

    I’m currently thinking of using their service, but would like to know whether you’ve tried them and decided not to use them.

    Cheers

    by John • Mar 9th 2011 • 20:03

  • Hi John, we didn’t really look at Avangate, so I don’t really have enough information either way. Let us know how it pans out, however!

    by Rahul • Mar 10th 2011 • 14:03

  • I found your post after spending countless hours for a decent solution for cc handling for a startup in Greece. Really appreciate the time and effort you put on compiling this information.

    It really is a nightmare to find an appropriate solution for a non-US or UK based company.

    On my quest, I was especially amazed by the simplicity of Braintree (www.braintree.com) Unfortunately it does not wok outside US. All others, including spreedly, require a separated merchant and payment gateway. Braintree on the other hand is developer friendly and get you cover on merchant and payment part. Perhaps a business opportunity for a EU based startup!

    Other than that I would love to hear how your combination of services are doing in practice. What makes me a bit nervous is the fact you need to work with 3! different providers.

    by Athanasios • Mar 14th 2011 • 09:03

  • This is such a great set of posts. I’ve been doing some research in this exact area for The Netherlands, and hit a few roadblocks – wondering if you might have solved them ;-)

    1. Do you offer iDeal as a payment method on your site? if not, why? OGone does support iDeal. Does Spreedly not support it?

    2. Do you offer debit cards as an option through which subscribers can pay?

    3. If you do offer debit cards/internet banking, how does the recurring subscription work in the debit card/internet banking model? How does Spreedly get this information?

    :-/

    by Ramana • Apr 4th 2011 • 14:04

  • Hi Ramana,

    1. No. We’re focusing on international customers and believe offering iDeal isn’t a priority right now. Spreedly also doesn’t support it, but that doesn’t mean we couldn’t – in theory we could ask your payment choice before sending you to either Spreedly or something else depending on your preference.

    2. No, just credit cards right now.

    3. N/A. :-)

    So unfortunately I think we haven’t solved the same problems. If you want to solve the iDeal problem, please do, and let us know how it worked out for you. However, I think there are several solutions available like Ogone and Twyp for implementing iDeal that also allow you to customise the user experience. While Ogone is a hassle to deal with on your end, perhaps you can figure out some why to make it a breeze for the end user by keeping them in your UI for as long as possible.

    by Rahul • Apr 5th 2011 • 15:04

  • Hey Rahul – follow on question

    “in theory we could ask your payment choice before sending you to either Spreedly or something else”

    And then have a script run information from “something else” back to Spreedly? The reason why I would look at Spreedly is to have it as a central subscription/member management tool. Would you have done this?

    I guess iDEAL is a very popular payment method for Dutch folks. Coming from Norway, I know bankaxess is a similar preferred online payment method for Norwegians (and eDankort for the Danes). So if I intend to sell to the Dutch, going local is key. Much research says that real-time online payment methods trump credit cards in the Netherlands.

    Would be tremendous to get your view, since you’re resident there right now
    :-)

    by Ramana • Apr 6th 2011 • 07:04

  • Ramana,

    Sorry about the late response. We wanted to use Spreedly primarily because its user experience is far ahead of most other payment services. Secondly we wanted to use it because its API is much simpler than everyone elses. Finally we just really liked the team there. In terms of using Spreedly as a central service for all our payment options, we decided not to think too much about that as for now we really just wanted to handle basic credit card payments. If and when we decide to tackle more options, we’ll reconsider the different providers.

    But yeah, if you plan to sell to the Dutch, then direct bank deposits and iDeal (which is basically a wrapper around standard PIN/debit card payments) are the most used methods here. Credit cards are becoming more accepted too, though.

    Hope that helps.

    by Rahul • Apr 12th 2011 • 11:04

  • Thanks much Rahul. Love the new name.

    by Ramana • Apr 14th 2011 • 16:04

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